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Two men in discussion
Maker
(artist)
1606-1669
1606-1669
Title
Two men in discussion
Date of Production
1641
Medium
pen and brown ink, white bodycolour on laid paper, with brown ink framing lines trimmed away at the right edge; the upper and lower left corners, large section at left central edge, and small sections of central upper and lower edges made up (according to William Clarke, former Courtauld conservator, the right edge was trimmed to make up the damaged left edge)
Dimensions
Height: 22.9 cm
Width: 18.5 cm
Width: 18.5 cm
Accession Number
D.1978.PG.190
Mode of Acquisition
Count Antoine Seilern, bequest, 1978
Credit
The Courtauld, London (Samuel Courtauld Trust)
Copyright
Work in the public domain
Location
Not currently on display
Keywords
Label Text
The date and signature at the bottom of this sheet make it one of the few drawings securely attributed to Rembrandt. The men’s vaguely exotic attire may be inspired by fantasy or by the costumes of the foreign merchants who were a common sight in seventeenth-century Amsterdam. The fluidity of the flexible quill pen is combined with the atmospheric effect achieved with the heavier reed pen. Rembrandt used the reed pen to rework the outlines of the bearded figure, making it more prominent.
Notes
See online catalogue raisonné by Martin Royalton-Kisch, where he considers this drawing 'documentary' with an unimpeachable signature and date: rembrandtcatalogue.net, Benesch 500a.
Provenance
private collection, France; by descent to a Mrs O'Rooney, Ireland (according to a letter from de Bayser, in file); Otto Wertheimer, Galerie les Tourettes (Paris) (according to Benesch, but Seilern says this is erroneous based on the information provided by de Bayser; but perhaps the French family and/or Mrs O'Rooney first had the drawing on consignment with Wertheimer before de Bayser?); acquired from Mrs O'Rooney by Galerie de Bayser (Paris); purchased there via Arthur Goldschmidt (Paris) by Count Antoine Seilern, London (1901-1978), 21 October 1952 (1,500 francs); Princes Gate Bequest
Exhibition History
Rembrandt's Mark, Staatliche Kunstsammlungen, Dresden, Kupferstich-Kabinett, 14/06/2019-15/09/2019
Mantegna to Matisse - Master Drawings from The Courtauld Gallery, The Frick Collection, New York, 02/10/2012-27/01/2013
Mantegna to Matisse - Master Drawings from The Courtauld Gallery, The Courtauld Gallery, London, 14/06/2012-09/09/2012 ...More
Drawings by Rembrandt and his Pupils, J Paul Getty Museum, Los Angeles, 08/12/2009-28/02/2010
Special Display - Rembrandt drawings, The Courtauld Gallery, London, 22/02/2007-03/06/2007
Drawings by Rembrandt in the Princes Gate Collection, The Courtauld Gallery, London, 02/07/1983-25/09/1983 ...Less
Mantegna to Matisse - Master Drawings from The Courtauld Gallery, The Frick Collection, New York, 02/10/2012-27/01/2013
Mantegna to Matisse - Master Drawings from The Courtauld Gallery, The Courtauld Gallery, London, 14/06/2012-09/09/2012 ...More
Drawings by Rembrandt and his Pupils, J Paul Getty Museum, Los Angeles, 08/12/2009-28/02/2010
Special Display - Rembrandt drawings, The Courtauld Gallery, London, 22/02/2007-03/06/2007
Drawings by Rembrandt in the Princes Gate Collection, The Courtauld Gallery, London, 02/07/1983-25/09/1983 ...Less
Literature
Schatborn, Peter and Erik Hinterding, Rembrandt: the complete drawings and etchings, Cologne: Taschen 2019
cat. D365 on p. 238
Rembrandt's Mark, Staatliche Kunstsammlungen, Dresden, Kupferstich-Kabinett, 2019
cat. no. 30
p. 158
ill. on p. 159
Mantegna to Matisse - Master Drawings from The Courtauld Gallery, Frick Collection, New York and Courtauld Gallery, London London 2012-2013
cat. no. 26
pp. 136-38
ill. on p. 137 ...More
Royalton-Kisch, Martin and Peter Schatborn, 'The Core Group of Rembrandt Drawings, II: The List' in 'Master Drawings', Autumn 2011 - pp. 323-346; 49, 3
no. 49
fig. 123 on p. 338
Royalton-Kisch, Martin, Review of Exh. Los Angeles, 2009-2010 in 'Burlington Magazine', 2011 - pp. 97-102; CLIII
pp. 98-99, note 11
Schatborn, Peter, 'The Early, Rembrandtesque Drawings of Govert Flinck', Master Drawings, 2010 - pp. 4-38
p. 13
Royalton-Kisch, Martin, Catalogue of drawings by Rembrandt and his school. Online research catalogue. https://research.britishmuseum.org/research/publications/online_research_catalogues/rembrandt_drawings/drawings_by_rembrandt.aspx, 2010
under nos. 34, 35, 36, 38, 74, 75 and 105n3
Drawings by Rembrandt and his Pupils, J Paul Getty Museum, Los Angeles, 2009-10
cat. no. 21.1
pp. 142, 256
ill. on p. 140
Royalton-Kisch, Martin, Drawings by Rembrandt and his circle in the British Museum, London 1992
p. 99 under no. 37, p. 103 under no. 39, p. 105 under no. 40, p. 193n3 under no. 93
Fig. p. comp. pl. 6 on p. 224
Sumowski, Werner, trans. by Walter L. Strauss, Drawings of the Rembrandt School, 10 vols., New York 1979-1992
vol. I, under no. 238x; vol. IV, under no. 953x
Schatborn, Peter, Catalogue of Dutch and Flemish Drawings in the Rijksmuseum. IV: Drawings by Rembrandt, his anonymous pupils and followers, The Hague 1985
under no. 17, n.7
Drawings by Rembrandt in the Princes Gate Collection, Courtauld Galllery, 1983
cat. no. 18
Broos, B.P.J., Review of 'The Rembrandt documents' by Walter L. Strauss and Marjon van der Meulen, in 'Simiolus', 1981-82 - pp. 245-62; 12, 4
p. 246
Seilern, Count Antoine, Corrigenda and Addenda to the Catalogue of paintings and drawings at 56 Princes Gate, London, London 1971
no. 190
Slive, S., 'Reconsideration of some rejected Rembrandt Drawings’, in 'Art Quarterly', 1964 - pp 274-96; XXVII
p. 175
ill.
Haverkamp Begemann, E., Review of Benesch, Part 2 in 'Kunstchronik', Feb. 1961; XIV, 2
p. 51 (or 17? TK)
not a Biblical subject but 2 independent studies of figures
Sumowski, Werner, Bemerkungen zu Otto Beneschs Corpus der Rembrandtzeichnungen, Bad Pyrmont 1961
p. 9
doubted the authorship
Seilern, Count Antoine, Paintings and drawings of Continental Schools other than Flemish and Italian at 56 Princes Gate, London SW7, London 1961; III
no. 190
pl. XV
Rosenberg, Jakob, 'Reviewed work(s): the drawings of Rembrandt by Otto Benesch' in 'The Art Bulletin', Mar. 1959 - pp. 108-19; 41, 1
p. 112
questions the attribution to Rembrandt, but Seilern 1961 says he convinced him it was authentic
Drost, Willi, Adam Elsheimer als Zeichner, Stuttgart 1957
p. 184
Benesch, Otto, Corpus der Rembrandtzeichnungen, 1954-73
vol. III (1973), no. 500a
fig. 629 (or 658? TK)
probably biblical subject, connected with etching of 3 Oriental Figures
Royalton-Kisch, Martin, The drawings of Rembrandt: a revision of Otto Benesch's catalogue raisonné, rembrandtcatalogue.net ongoing
Benesch 500a (posted 5 September 2020)
as a documentary drawing signed and dated 1641 ...Less
cat. D365 on p. 238
Rembrandt's Mark, Staatliche Kunstsammlungen, Dresden, Kupferstich-Kabinett, 2019
cat. no. 30
p. 158
ill. on p. 159
Mantegna to Matisse - Master Drawings from The Courtauld Gallery, Frick Collection, New York and Courtauld Gallery, London London 2012-2013
cat. no. 26
pp. 136-38
ill. on p. 137 ...More
Royalton-Kisch, Martin and Peter Schatborn, 'The Core Group of Rembrandt Drawings, II: The List' in 'Master Drawings', Autumn 2011 - pp. 323-346; 49, 3
no. 49
fig. 123 on p. 338
Royalton-Kisch, Martin, Review of Exh. Los Angeles, 2009-2010 in 'Burlington Magazine', 2011 - pp. 97-102; CLIII
pp. 98-99, note 11
Schatborn, Peter, 'The Early, Rembrandtesque Drawings of Govert Flinck', Master Drawings, 2010 - pp. 4-38
p. 13
Royalton-Kisch, Martin, Catalogue of drawings by Rembrandt and his school. Online research catalogue. https://research.britishmuseum.org/research/publications/online_research_catalogues/rembrandt_drawings/drawings_by_rembrandt.aspx, 2010
under nos. 34, 35, 36, 38, 74, 75 and 105n3
Drawings by Rembrandt and his Pupils, J Paul Getty Museum, Los Angeles, 2009-10
cat. no. 21.1
pp. 142, 256
ill. on p. 140
Royalton-Kisch, Martin, Drawings by Rembrandt and his circle in the British Museum, London 1992
p. 99 under no. 37, p. 103 under no. 39, p. 105 under no. 40, p. 193n3 under no. 93
Fig. p. comp. pl. 6 on p. 224
Sumowski, Werner, trans. by Walter L. Strauss, Drawings of the Rembrandt School, 10 vols., New York 1979-1992
vol. I, under no. 238x; vol. IV, under no. 953x
Schatborn, Peter, Catalogue of Dutch and Flemish Drawings in the Rijksmuseum. IV: Drawings by Rembrandt, his anonymous pupils and followers, The Hague 1985
under no. 17, n.7
Drawings by Rembrandt in the Princes Gate Collection, Courtauld Galllery, 1983
cat. no. 18
Broos, B.P.J., Review of 'The Rembrandt documents' by Walter L. Strauss and Marjon van der Meulen, in 'Simiolus', 1981-82 - pp. 245-62; 12, 4
p. 246
Seilern, Count Antoine, Corrigenda and Addenda to the Catalogue of paintings and drawings at 56 Princes Gate, London, London 1971
no. 190
Slive, S., 'Reconsideration of some rejected Rembrandt Drawings’, in 'Art Quarterly', 1964 - pp 274-96; XXVII
p. 175
ill.
Haverkamp Begemann, E., Review of Benesch, Part 2 in 'Kunstchronik', Feb. 1961; XIV, 2
p. 51 (or 17? TK)
not a Biblical subject but 2 independent studies of figures
Sumowski, Werner, Bemerkungen zu Otto Beneschs Corpus der Rembrandtzeichnungen, Bad Pyrmont 1961
p. 9
doubted the authorship
Seilern, Count Antoine, Paintings and drawings of Continental Schools other than Flemish and Italian at 56 Princes Gate, London SW7, London 1961; III
no. 190
pl. XV
Rosenberg, Jakob, 'Reviewed work(s): the drawings of Rembrandt by Otto Benesch' in 'The Art Bulletin', Mar. 1959 - pp. 108-19; 41, 1
p. 112
questions the attribution to Rembrandt, but Seilern 1961 says he convinced him it was authentic
Drost, Willi, Adam Elsheimer als Zeichner, Stuttgart 1957
p. 184
Benesch, Otto, Corpus der Rembrandtzeichnungen, 1954-73
vol. III (1973), no. 500a
fig. 629 (or 658? TK)
probably biblical subject, connected with etching of 3 Oriental Figures
Royalton-Kisch, Martin, The drawings of Rembrandt: a revision of Otto Benesch's catalogue raisonné, rembrandtcatalogue.net ongoing
Benesch 500a (posted 5 September 2020)
as a documentary drawing signed and dated 1641 ...Less
Inscriptions
Watermark: Watermark: centre: coat of arms containing a posthorn above monogram "WR" (of a type with Heawood 2718-2734 - Dutch and English paper dated between 1665 and 1721, but no match found in Heawood or Churchill; 2.7 cm between chain lines. Cf. Laurentius, p. 256, no.622 [1644]).
Inscription: Recto: lower centre edge over the framing lines, brown ink, signed and dated (part of name missing due to loss of paper): "Rembran[...] f 1621" [does not look like a "4"! See photo].
Collector's mark: none.
Inscription: Recto: lower centre edge over the framing lines, brown ink, signed and dated (part of name missing due to loss of paper): "Rembran[...] f 1621" [does not look like a "4"! See photo].
Collector's mark: none.
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